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8'3'' Pintail, "Foam in Frame" Project

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  • #76
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ID:	6940 Twins...

    Major difference is height, volume and weight
    58 vs 70l Volume, 4,3 vs 6,1 kg ...
    Will be interesting to surf and check the differences...
    The best surfer is the one with the biggest smile on his face...

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    • #77
      Those are some good looking boards. Nice projects. I hope you get some fun waves on them.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by woodylogic View Post
        Those are some good looking boards. Nice projects. I hope you get some fun waves on them.
        The left, the new, lighter one, has a much better surface. Vennering worked out well, despite the cracking, which hopefully has no final influence. I'm astonished about the weight, but the deck appeared that sturdy without glass, that I used 50g glass, which is about 1.50oz only. .. And it definitely feels pretty good. The bottom is not veneered, but glassed with 80g or 2.5oz glass. But deck and bottom are glassed inside too, only with 50g, but this should make it real stabile.
        Best thing, next week I'm heading to Portugal, hope to get some decent surf...
        The best surfer is the one with the biggest smile on his face...

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        • #79
          That sounds like a fun surf trip. I've never been to Portugal. Sometimes, I see some WSL events from there. They get some decent waves. It will be interesting to see how the boards perform and compare. Have a good time.

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          • #80
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ID:	7013 Returned from Portugal, Trip with my son was great, not good, but surfable waves, but most of the time I was surfing my plastic board... Here is what happened:

            We only took the lighter Pintail, the second one, with us on the plane, due to transport costs and only 5 days to surf... I chose this one, because it has the goretex vent.
            At day one of surfing I went into the water and got some nice little waves, board looked good to ride, but after the session was over, I heard some suspicious noises... again water inside a board, unbelievable... at our place I drilled some tiny holes to get the water and till "the only" possibiltiy, why there is water inside, was the goretex vent, I took a decent drill bit and drilled the entire valve out, destroying it, goretex vents are shit, that was what I thought. After one day in the sun, I closed all openings with epoxy...
            OK lets try no vent at all!
            During the drying process I realised, that the bottom side, the one not veneered, stayed rather cool, even if exposed to direct sunlight, whereas the venereed side got really hot. Thats why I tried to avoid direct sunlight to the deck (exeption of course during surfing) and I took a silver board bag too. So changes that the sun harm the board are restricted.

            Ok, everything went well, we headed to the beach, unloaded the car, changed cloth and jumped into the water. Still small waves, but the board rode pleasantly. Everything looked perfect, but as I ended the session, I heard the unpleasant noises of water moving inside my board again... Can you believe this, no vent at all, but again water inside... I must have another problem, the goretex vent may have worked perfect, but there has to be another way where water intrudes...

            I lay it one one side and wathed, I held it nose down, nose up for minutes, nothing... I put onto the silver board bag, dried myself, changed the wet suit and after some time I saw water under my board... and then I saw it, it rinsed out on one side of the board at a point, where the deck meets the rails. slowly but one drop after the other appeared. I inspected a little closer and within 15inches I had three spots identified. There must be a bad glue line in combination with not enough resin to seal. And yes if you looked really closely , you could see some weave of the light 1.x oz cloth. So the cloth was not saturated 100% and also the final hotcoat must have been not enough at those spots, maybe they lye in a little downward dented area. I cannot explain it actually, but it looks that I just have to sand it down a little and apply one or two coats of epoxy at the spots, or better at the entire board. Unfortunately time was to short to do it, I wanted to let it dry at least for a week, so I took my 6.6 63l old guys Pukas board...

            Next time in Portugal I will have an hour of work, but after two days, the board without valves should be ready to be tested again...

            But finally we had some fun surfing...


            Last edited by Olddude; 09-24-2018, 06:57 AM.
            The best surfer is the one with the biggest smile on his face...

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            • #81
              It sounds like you had a awesome surf trip. To bad about the pinhole leaks.

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              • #82
                Sorry to hear about the leaks. It's just the worst sound in the world.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by phillipjohnw View Post
                  Sorry to hear about the leaks. It's just the worst sound in the world.
                  Yes it definitely, but now I now what "pinhole leaks" are. And it looks easy to get rid off and in future to prevent them. Just a careful glassing and more careful inspection after each glass and/or resin layer should do the job. I definitely crossed the border between light and too light (I applied only very little hotcoat and spread it as thin a possible with my rollers...)

                  Regarding light: After I had the second water intake I thought a short time on destroying the board and building it new. But before destrying I wanted to test the strength. To be remembered, the board was glassed with 50gr/m² (less 1,5oz/sqy) both insides and 80g (bottom) and 50g (deck, but veneer counts too), only, this glass needs about 1.5times the weight of resin as laminating resin and even less for hotcoat.
                  I placed the tail on the ground (soil and herbs, no pavement) and the front on the 2. step of a stairway. So there were only two points of contact at a length distance of about 2,25m or 7.5 foot. The I placed 1 foot right at the center and increased the weight slowly, by leaning more and more over it. The I placed both feet. Result, nothing, absolutely solid. I even started swinging my body slightly up and down, the feets touching always, no jumps, and still nothing, rock solid...
                  The I refused the planned destruction and the powerful jump. Its incredible how strong this construction is, even with light balsa a very litlle glass... I do not see any need for much stronger glass in the future, just a better coating to avoid the pinholes will do the job.
                  Can't wait to go down there, sand the board, one or two new thick epoxy coats, may on with a low and one with a high viscosity resin and up into the water....
                  The best surfer is the one with the biggest smile on his face...

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                  • #84
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ID:	7156 Back in Portugal, first time in November. It poured day one, so I had a lot of time doing the repairs needed. I closed the last time drilled water outlet holes, wrapped a layer of light glass around the rail, where I located the pin holes and epoxied the deck with a light coat. with only limited equipment here, the objective is to get the board working, not to have a perfect beauty. Tomorrow the bottom will get another coat too and then its time to surf...

                    The best surfer is the one with the biggest smile on his face...

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                    • #85
                      So, just going back to this - would you choose foam or no foam? It's such an intriguing idea to foam the middle but as soon as it's done, that's it. I'm undecided if I should try it or not. If I had many boards worth of building to do then I would definitely go for it but I don't.

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                      • #86
                        Difficult to answer. The 2nd board, the thinner one was without foam, the big one with foam still stays in Germany and has not seen water yet. The basic idea for the foam, was getting rid of valves and the without foam took water again. But it was due to too thin glass/epoxy and maybe a mistake made with the leash hole, which is bored through the board through epoxy and the finbox was not epoxied in properly.
                        Foam allows to use thinner, more bendable wood, but if it is to thin, the pressure of the foam itself pushes the deck outwards (if you foam from the sides). I think it may be better to build the frame, bottom and outer frame and foam before the deck is applied, meaning you have to shape the deck and glue the deck onto the foam, but then you have to shape it well.
                        If properly foamed, if water gets in, the foam will hinder the water intruding. so if you ran into a stone and get a ding, its easier to repair.
                        But the loss in woodweight is lossed against a gain in foam weight, but glass is only needed to seal, not for stability. so finally its 50:50.

                        My next one will be build without foam and with light wood, but I will take special care on glassing, although it is not necessary for strength, I will use at least 4oz glass and a thick gelcoat to make it 100% waterproof. I will try a goretex vent again and hopefully it will be watertight.
                        The best surfer is the one with the biggest smile on his face...

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                        • #87
                          Thanks! I think I'll leave it in this one.

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                          • #88
                            I'm 0 for 1 with gortex vent. I will never risk 100 hours of labor to a gortex vent ever again. How can a material let air in and out and not water? to good to be true. I've used the Brass vents Brad sells and will continue to use them.

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by duhn View Post
                              I'm 0 for 1 with gortex vent. I will never risk 100 hours of labor to a gortex vent ever again. How can a material let air in and out and not water? to good to be true. I've used the Brass vents Brad sells and will continue to use them.
                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7FsbGhRn6M

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                              • #90
                                Just came back from one week Portugal, no ideal conditions. (The Single Fin 6'6 worked out great, the gore tex vent worked flawless, no water inside)
                                As the waves got smaller and smaller I took the 8'3 out again, there was still some water inside from November... I decided to use it until it moulds from the inside and breaks, it did not not, but even in small waves this shape performs very well.
                                In short, with the experience of the 6'6, I decided to rebuild the GJ Nelson Adaption a third time. I will shorten it to 8' and add 3/8 of width to get close to original volume of 55l. this will be the next board project. No Foam, deck will be veneered with the olive ash, the bottom plain balsa to avoid uneccesary weight, plus a goretex vent, 6mm balsa deck and bottom laminated with 50gr/m² from the inside (1.5oz)and 160g/m² (about 5oz) outside... Lets see, if I will be able to build this shape finally without major faults...
                                The best surfer is the one with the biggest smile on his face...

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